Blogged by Emily Karol
Moderated by Sean Elliot
Panel:
1) Richard Ellis
2) Stanley Leary
3) Greg Smith
4) Stacey Pearsall
5) Mike Roy
Where did you learn about business?
MR:
Almost immediately downhill, survived 2 rounds of lay-offs but not the 3rd
Previous experience in marketing/PR: learn how to manage yourself in that environment, very similar in managing freelance career
Rolodex to fall back on
SP:
You on;y get back what you put into it
Sheer drive and energy got me through without that knowledge
Healthy rolodex of friends to help through process
Learning the hard way, what works and what doesn’t
Still a learning process, things are changing
Very adaptive of what’s going on, staying abreast
GS:
Started newspaper in 1982, learned business then
Working with national PR firm, large multi-national corporation
Everything was changing
Went out on own in 1995
Business practices committee for NPPA (research and attention to detail)
My own business is disaster area quite frankly
Not in debt, understand our situation, not banking a lot of money but I live a very good life
Avoid the negative
SL:
Cutting grass as teenager, putting grass in car
Having other people who have gone before me sharing their mistakes so I can learn from them
Support system of people around you, not in this business
Working for yourself is a risk
RE:
Everyone does it (business, part of human nature and capitalism)
It doesn’t mean that you’ll do it well, that’s where education has to come from
Learn and read as much as you can
PPA: business course, running a photography business
Passion for a business, people will take advantage: divorce your passion and creativity from your business ability to succeed
MR:
The emotion behind it is very rarely discussed
Self-medicating, trying to figure out what to do
Started talking to people that mattered to me
Fortunate, still don’t have any debt
Fact that I didn’t have to force myself into taking a different job, allowed a smoother transition to freelance
Having face to face time is very important
Calling people that I’ve stayed in touch with
SP:
Keeping genuine friendships with people
It’s a give and take, like a marriage
I’ve worked hard and been very honest with the people I’ve worked with
I try to stay in that neutralize zone, small community
SL:
Rolodex: paramount to success, life line to jobs
The people that struggle the most don’t have more than a 1000 names
Friends can only hire you so many times
If you keep rolodex same size, you will be out of work
Ones not hiring me, doesn’t mean they’re not referring you to other people
RE:
Rolodex not the ultimate solution, everyone is going through the same struggles (people moving in and out of the newsroom all the time)
If it has people who are friends, share ideas—not feel as alone, develop new path if you have to with help from those people (ex: wedding photography)
GS:
Exploring other channels, social media
I don’t know if it’s a solution, I have learned this much: you have to get together
Pepper with 5:1 ratio of shoot-out to people and links, become a valuable information source—people will look to you
Expert for people
Social media: copyright issues
If I care about a photo, I won’t put it on Facebook but I will share a link to blog/gallery
Stay current and be out there
Postcards and emails are just annoying, don’t do that
Set up a relationship, so they want to receive those emails
SP:
I don’t take the time to watch TV, I work
“Do I need to have this extra TV show, or should I be up on blog, etcâ€
SL:
“Greatness is not a function of circumstance…â€
Have to read outside this industry in order to have exptertise on other things
Find niches and passions that you have that aren’t photography, become expert
Learning from failure
SP:
Make friends from life
Had a hard time saying “no†not working to make money
Tough line in being too generous and being a good friend
Still battling with that one
SL:
Not positive enough in everything I say
You’re only as good as your last project
Always think how it sounds to client
How can help client succeed and not just you
MR:
Stay on top of invoice
finances
RE:
Make sure you save money
Going into business costs a lot of money
Being willing to say “no†to business (if it will hurt you in end)
GS:
Say “no†to one kind of work and take another kind of work
When you start saying “no†can become “deer in headlights†frozen
Perfection is enemy of good, good enough is enemy of great
So much easier to stare at screen rather than making calls and getting portfolio shown
SP:
Local Chamber of Commerce
Trade system, still getting quality imagery out of it
Look down road
Diversifying photography: learned how to think outside of box
Diversity: Editorial, Commercial, etc.
SP:
Self-fulfilling editorial, personal
GS:
We are comprised and have conflicts of interest, we have to be very careful what we’re comprising
We have no choice because market is forcing us to right now
Balancing acts that forced to deal with
Key to surviving: be honest with yourself, careful with how your present yourself
Doing what you love to do? Doing what you have to do?
MR:
Doing what I have to do more than love to do
Doing more business than shooting
Its not shooting, its running a business
Shooting is a similar portion of what I do on a day to day
SP:
A lot of business management rather than shooting
As long as I’m doing something in photography than I’m happy
SL:
Can become overwhelming, you forget to market yourself because you spent too much time shooting
Certain projects that are business related, market so you will keep getting jobs
RE:
You’re only going to shoot all the time if you’re on staff
Shooting a lot of travel stock: post-production is hugely time consuming
Shooting is smallest piece in terms of labor put in now
I’m doing what I love, but a lot of what I do is to keep me doing what I love
Rates
MR:
I don’t really quote a price, even if you’re on staff—collect as much information as you can before giving a price
GS:
Best business advice I’ve gotten: “I’ll get back to youâ€
Got to close at some point, but get as much information as possible
Is photojournalism a hobby or profession?
GS:
Real question for entire industry
RE:
Separate passion from business, best practice business
Audience:
What you are doing at the end of the day is that you are producing a product
Producer: takes responsibility for a project and carries it through to completion
Position yourself as producer, people you are dealing with look at you in a different way
Question: what will it cost the client for you to produce what the client needs?
GS:
Look at negotiating issues, networking, business
What do you bring to the party?—that’s soul searching
Why hire me? And not someone else?
Often it’s the manner in which you operate, not usually the best photographers but the best business person
Niche
MR:
I don’t look at myself as a niche photographer
If I do have a niche, its that I like making money
SL:
Debates on generalists v. niche
There is a place for the generalist, but the generalist needs to have something that stands out whether its personality or something else
Large number of people rely on portfolio, but a lot of people are capable of shooting what I shoot—what makes you unique
Talk about what you can do for your clients, know what your strengths are
SP:
Important to find hobby and passion out of that
If you’re not making the money that you used to, at least be happy about doing it
SL:
Corporate: hire character more than hire skills—it’s how you carry yourself, you’re in their territory
Closing advice
MR:
After getting laid off I had a lot of anxiety, took a
Take some time off and regroup if you need to
The grind will get to you for sure
I always feel better afterwards
“Avoid the anxietyâ€
SP:
Don’t degrade your work and your self-worth
Survive by further educating yourself
Surround yourself with other positive people
“Keep up your chinâ€
GS:
Take time for yourself
“Balanceâ€
SL:
Learning a servant role
Listening a lot more than talking to client
“Become the problem solver, become valuable for clientâ€
RE:
Don’t allow yourself to become bitter
Stay positive
You chose to get into this industry, don’t carry a chip on your shoulder about it
Be flexible: multiple jobs throughout your life
“Consider it an honor to be in this industryâ€
Suggested Reading (become an expert in business, negotiating, niche markets)
ASMP Bible
Pricing Photography
Fast Track Photographer
NPPA Photographer’s Toolkit